Black Dahlia: Interview with The following interview was conducted by (Anon) What inspired you to delve into the Black
Dahlia murder case? Were you planning on a book all along? And did you
know, from the beginning, you were going to become so involved with
it? It was not so much a matter of inspiration (curiosity and fascination
played a part) that focused my attention upon the Black Dahlia murder
case as it was a matter of financial necessity. It was 1963 and
tough-guy actor Tom Neal (of DETOUR, etc) wanted to produce and star in
a movie based on the case. I was living in Hollywood, writing
screenplays and stories, and trying to keep my head above water. The
deal with Tom offered some cash up front and the big carrot on the other
end--when Tom raised the “rest of the financing...” Tom came via another
low-budget producer I knew, and had information about my father (a
policeman) and his connections in LAPD. Taking the assignment, I went
into LAPD via the “inside” door, and forged my associations with
officers and detectives in Homicide. As to the inspiration and curiosity on a personal level: I had met
Elizabeth Short when I was about eleven years old. She came to my
grandmother’s house believing the Short side of my family might’ve been
related to her family, and she was seeking information regarding her
father. This meeting became a haunting sort of memory following her
murder months later. Like everyone in Los Angeles, I had been fascinated
with the case. Actor/director Jack Webb of Dragnet fame, was also associated with
members of LAPD’s homicide division, and during my previous work as an
actor, I was acquainted with Webb. Both Webb and I were considered
“enemies” by Det. Harry Hansen, then in charge of the Dahlia case, and
as interlopers upon Hansen’s private territory. Hansen attempted
to stop Tom Neal from pursuing a movie deal (since Hansen had plans of
his own). Almost two years later, after failed attempts by Neal to raise the
financing, he was charged with murdering his own wife in Palm Springs.
He went to prison for this, and of course the movie deal fell apart
(much to Hansen’s satisfaction). However, I continued my investigations, feeling I had gone too far to
turn back. At that time many people linked in some way to Beth Short
were still alive. I wasn’t a cop. They could talk without fearing
whatever they said “might be held against” them. A year later I was
involved with the Charles Schmid case in Arizona - the boy who had
thrill-killed three girls and buried them in the desert. My interest in
this case, which formed an association between myself and Schmid, as
well as my bringing F. Lee Bailey into the case, resulted in my first
true-crime book, THE TUCSON MURDERS, being published. (A new edition of
this book, COLD BLOODED, is now in print.) My publisher was interested in what I’d been doing with LA’s Black
Dahlia case, and this was how the book concept first came about. I had
no idea then that it would take me another twenty years before the many
pieces of the puzzle began to take shape enough for a picture to emerge.
Even then, it was and is a study in shadow. After many years of associations with press and police, I knew that
whole field lived in a different place--like where they operated was on
the face side of the moon. Where I had to go was to find what I was
looking for was on the dark side. The Black Dahlia case is a world in shadow--a night world where
things and people move in the dark, where motivations and individual
psychologies are riddled with inconsistencies and ambiguity. But I was
hooked--it became a peculiar juggling act of odd shapes and strange
chunks, seemingly without pattern. I’d jumped into a dark, lonely lake
and was going to the bottom without knowing what I’d find. All I knew
was that I had to keep going. It became an obsession, they say, because
I was chasing something I knew not what--only that I knew that it
was. (Pamela Hazelton) Do you prefer to call the victim, or
refer to the victim, as The Black Dahlia, or Elizabeth? Why? I have usually referred to
Elizabeth Short as “Beth” since that’s what she called herself--what she
was known as. Back east, her relatives knew her as Betty, but she called
herself “Beth." (Pamela Hazelton) Do the three mystery questions that only the real Black Dahlia killer
knows still a mystery or has all information been made public on the
mutilations of Elizabeth Short? All of the information on the
mutilations to the body has been made public via SEVERED: The True Story
of The Black Dahlia Murder. There are no secrets anymore, except those
that died with both the victim and the murderer. (Shawn Colton) Was there ever an accurate count on how many people admitted to having
killed Elizabeth Short? I believe the actual count of individuals who came forward to confess
to the Black Dahlia murder is somewhere in the neighborhood of 49 to 53.
Once the headlines or front page coverage fell off, the “pyschocranks”
stopped coming. Shows the power of the press--it’s ability to reach down
deep into the recesses of a mind--down into those conflicted areas. The
idea of confessing was to link one’s self to the “magic” or the
“magnetic draw” of the Black Dahlia case. It was, for some, almost
uncontrollable, and for those few minutes they could act out an actual
link to “that pale white body severed in two...” Beauty and darkness and
death. Three irresistible elements burning brightly like a dying
star. (Anon) Do you believe Jack Anderson Wilson, a/k/a Arnold Smith, sent the
paste-up letter to the police? If so, why? As hard as it is for the public to swallow, the killer did not send a
paste-up letter to the police (it was reportedly sent to the newspaper).
After Beth’s belongings were found and were being booked into evidence,
several items managed to slip past getting booked. One of the detectives
on this assignment was the brother of a reporter for the L.A. Examiner.
The “mysterious” package made the exclusive front page story just when
the case had dropped from the news. Page One again! Circulation shot up
overnight as it had during the earlier coverage. After this, the other papers concocted their own paste-up “letters from
the killer...” The mysterious packet to the Examiner, and the alleged
memos received by other papers, were all invented as “circulation
boosters." (Shawn Colton) I read your book and found it intriguing.. as I do The Black Dahlia
Case - what I have read of it . I ran into a woman who was a distant
relative by marriage of Finis Brown. She said that Mr. Brown suspected a
woman killer.. is there any truth to this? If so can you tell me why he
suspected a woman? Finis Brown did not seriously ever suspect a woman of the crime. This
was a result of the “lesbians” that came forth claiming to have
information about the killing, and that “it was a lesbian killing.”
These were dismissed along with the rest of the “psycho cranks,” as
Brown called them. (Annette) When did the unnamed informant first approach the LAPD with his story
about Smith? The “unnamed informant” first approached the police in early
November, 1981, about Arnold Smith a/k/a Jack Anderson Wilson. The unnamed
informant was me--John Gilmore. In the new version of SEVERED (Amok
Books, for Spring 98), an afterword will cover a brief history of my
personal involvement with the principals in the book, and how this led
to the “hunt down” by LAPD for Wilson. (Anon) Was the fingerprint lifted off the hallway light bulb in Georgette
Bauerdorf's apartment ever matched with Jack Anderson Wilson’s prints? Not only was the print lifted from the light bulb in the hallway, but
a palm print was lifted from the right edge of the bathtub in which the
killer dumped her body. I believe the prints were compared to the ones
in Georgette’s car, abandoned near he location where Elizabeth Short was
later murdered. To fully appreciate why the case was not pressed, and
why the second murder might’ve been avoided, one must search the
reasoning power and dictatorship of William Randolph
Hearst. (Anon) What year did Jack Anderson Wilson die? Jack Anderson Wilson burned to death in a hotel room fire on February
4, 1982. (Anon) Do you believe Elizabeth Short’s murder was the result of the making of
a snuff film? The rumor that Beth Short died as result of the making of some snuff
film has no bearing on reality. (Anon) On Feb. 17, 1947, Otto Parzyjegla confessed to the mutilation of his
employer, Alfred Haij, using a blade from a paper cutter and dismembering
the body. The story does not follow-up possible connections to the Black
Dahlia murder and Otto Parzyjegla disappears from news. Your thoughts? The “paper cutter” murder as confessed to by Otto Parzyjegla had its
15-minutes-of-fame and went to the bottom like a lead sinker. It was a
wholly unsympathetic situation with no public “appeal” and no connection
whatsoever to the Dahlia case. The severing of Beth’s body was done by a
simple, old-fashioned kitchen knife and a strong arm; the edges of the
wound are clearly irregular when examined closely, the result of several
stop and start motions, the sawing sort of impression. This was the
cause of her death, incidentally; massive hemorrhaging, though
unconscious at the time of the severing of her torso. (Shawn Colton) SEVERED does not explain several mutilations to Elizabeth Short pelvic
gash and tattoo removal. Why? Elizabeth Short never had a tattoo. This was another cliché attached
to the case. She had a slight rose-colored birthmark on one thigh. As to
the mutilations to her pelvic area, there is really no way to explain
these; one would have to dig into the runs and twists inside the
killer’s brain. Why one dismembers and another decapitates, or does
vaginal excavations or disembowels or any other number of abuses to a
body is simply one component to the overall crime that’s being
committed. Of more importance in the Dahlia case is Wilson’s explanation
that “panties” were stuffed into Beth’s mouth and down her throat (this
in an attempt to suffocate), the same thing that killed Georgette
Bauerdorf. This “thing” of the crimes was most unusual and one of the
factors that first arrested the immediate attention of
LAPD. (Shawn Colton) On Feb. 11, 1947, the body of Jeanne T. French is discovered on a
West Los Angeles hilltop The Moors with the letters B.D. on her torso.
Do you believe this was another Jack Anderson Wilson murder? There
was no connection to the murder of Jeanne French and that of Elizabeth
Short. It is possible that the French murder was set off by the frenzy
of the press and the intensity of the Black Dahlia atmosphere, but there
was no other connection. (Shawn Colton) I heard a rumor that Elizabeth Short had a brief affair with an up and
coming star Marilyn Monroe. Is this true? I am a really big fan of
Monroe's and I have never heard anything about this before. What's the
deal? About Marilyn Monroe, it is most probable that she never met
Elizabeth Short. Let alone ever having entered into “an affair” with
her. A lot of years back while I was involved in sorting out the
Florentine Gardens story and the Mark Hansen episode to do with
Elizabeth Short, I conducted an interview with someone who dished out
the Monroe information (not an affair, but that they knew one another).
This was the first time in history those two names had been linked. I
will not name this other writer (who has made many claims about his
“relationship” with Monroe), but while I transcribed his information, I
soon found that it had no merit whatsoever and anything he said was
impossible to substantiate, even down to one single shred of the story.
And while this connection might seem a “hot angle” to some, to me it’s
is nothing more than a tall tale told to generated personal publicity
for that writer. As interesting a tale as that might have made, the
credibility is about as thin as a microbe’s wing. (Anon) When was John St. John placed in charge of the Dahlia
Investigation? John St. John, “Jigsaw John,” Badge Number 1 (of his own devising),
inherited the Dahlia file for no other reason than due to seniority. The
“file” is nothing more than a sort of yoke dumped on one detective after
another because someone has to answer the crank calls. The “filing
cabinet” on the Dahlia case is actually an LAPD joke. Very little of the
original “evidence” exists as most of it took a walk with Harry Hansen
when he retired from the department. Not to say that Harry hadn’t been
squirreling most of it away for quite some time before he rode off into
the sunset. Certainly enough to pinch a handsome profit from the Efrem
Zimbalist (who played Harry) movie, Who Was The Black Dahlia? St. John was the last of the old-time detectives; the hard line
no-bullshit cops; the divisional detective like Harry Hansen and a few
others. (Anon) I read in your book that Elizabeth Short had some sort of
vaginal abnormality that may have prevented her from having sexual
intercourse. If this is the case why are there so many derogatory things
said about her in reference to her being a prostitute and being very promiscuous? I felt pity for her and her lifestyle when reading your book.
She seemed like a lost soul without any means of supporting herself and
had to rely on men to feed her and such. Is there any truth to her being a
prostitute and being promiscuous? I read about the shoe salesman in your
book and felt really badly that she would have to do such things for shoes
but thinking again on her lifestyle and depending on dates to eat she must
have felt pressure to keep up her appearance. Very sad. In the first weeks of the case following the murder, it was
preferable (according to the detectives in charge (Harry Hansen), to let
the press play their greasy hand at Elizabeth Short as hooker,
prostitute, man-chaser, barfly, etc.; in short--a whore. While alive,
Beth did not refute the “man-chaser” reputation she had whenever she
spent time with other women. “They’re jealous,” she told a friend. And
what man would say, “No, I didn’t get it on with her... I wanted to, but
she gave me the brush.” Beth’s mother knew about the girl’s “handicap,” and while she bore
the assault by the press on Beth’s character, she believed it was in the
interest of justice--only the killer would know the truth about that
situation, and that would possibly be the means by which he’d get
caught. Unfortunately, the killer was not caught and the tales told back
went on without a counter-story Beth was a lost soul, driven by a strange desire or compulsion to
keep resetting the stage for a romance that could finally go nowhere.
She sold herself--not her sex. She prostituted her IMAGE, not her body.
Rarely did she perform any sexual act and this was limited to anal and
oral sex, probably when all else failed. With her killer, everything failed. It was the end of the line for
Beth, and she’d hardly even started the journey. ( Annette) SEVERED makes no attempt to explain why Elizabeth Short’s hair was
hennaed. Why? When found dead, the hair had been
wet, not “shampooed” or “dyed red." These are just more the non-truth
cliches along with the cigarette burns to the
body. ( Shawn Colton) Are there any stag films or extra roles that The Dahlia actually
appeared in? There are no actual stag films
featuring Elizabeth Short. A few frames were brought to light that
could’ve been her in a stag film, but again there wasn’t any
substantiation. This is not to rule out that she never did act in such a
film, just that such a film has never surfaced. As for working as an
extra, it is possible that she did, as I learned from my sources, but
again there isn’t a record of that through the old Central Casting
Office or the Screen Extras Union. Again, that doesn’t mean that she
didn’t. A girl who knew her fairly well, Barbara Lee, who did work as an
actress, told me Beth had worked extra in a picture that Barbara had
worked in. I personally believe that Beth did work as an extra at that
time. A PERSONAL POSTSCRIPT At some gut level, I knew that to understand killers and their victims
I’d perhaps come closer to understanding the Black Dahlia murder. The
chance stumbling into situations and the strange twists of fate seemed to
be preparing me for encounters that couldn’t have been anticipated. In a
search for "truth," was I on a collision course? Was it not a truth line,
but a fault line like that riding beneath an earthquake? To previous writers, Elizabeth Short, though innocent of most
everything except wanting to be a movie star, was portrayed as a "tramp,"
a "trollop," a call girl, someone who brought the trouble onto herself.
They said: "She got what she deserved!" None of that was true. I could
remember years back to a bright L.A. day when a beautiful young woman came
to my grandmother’s house to ask about the "Short" side of our
family. Her name was Elizabeth. In a few months she was of L.A.’s most
sensational murder victims--the Black Dahlia. I remember her black veil
and her pale face, red lips and black kid gloves. She drove away in a big
Studebaker with chrome-backed oval headlights, and I felt as though
someone very important to me was leaving my life. And I made a paper doll
I called Elizabeth. Everything I’d discover would
lead away from those cheap editorial judgments. I was after the truth--to
answer the questions "Why?" And to find out why, I’d had to
discover her--not the easy stereotype, but her, and I had to bring the
truth back out of the darkness. Why I had to do this I don’t really
know. I was compelled, and nothing was going to stand in my way. They’d said she was bad, but I could see she was an angel compared to
me, and I would learn it was not by any virtuous choice. More by some
freak volition apart from her own choosing. In a way, she would stand with
the boulevard midgets and the clowns and the dog-faced boy I’d encounter
on carnival midways. Beautiful, ravishing loveliness that aroused desire in everyone, yet
some precious element holding it sacred, so she’d never indulge in vaginal
sex, but paradoxically be sacrificed to an evil serpent--a tall, thin man
with one leg shorter than the other. Horribly frustrated artist that he
was--would-be actor, sign-hanger, self-proclaimed friend of Tom Mix and
some imaginary cowboys, he’d devised the most horrendous picture to thrust
back at an unappreciative world, but with an obscure signature. It was
there, but to read it with a normal mind was difficult if not
impossible. And now, I soon found, this elusive bum was watching me--the watcher
being watched. For over thirteen years, I’d be intermittently contacted by
this limping stranger, a man who’d hobble more up and down the more soused
he’d get, an almost nameless character who possessed knowledge of a deed
so overwhelmingly notorious, and yet no one knew but him. He wanted to
tell someone, he said, because death was breathing on his neck. He wanted to tell someone who
would understand--who could appreciate... I had been called to his
"attention" by my appearance on the news, not only talking about
the Tucson murders and Charlie Manson, but about the Black Dahlia as well. It became a combination of circumstances--he needed money and had
urgent information. We met in Main Street bars and skid row lobbies. It
was time for cards (and pictures) to laid on the table. One was a naked
young woman with luscious breasts. The head of the photo had been cut off
but the body was familiar. It was Elizabeth Short, but alive in this
shot--the same body later photographed by the cops in a vacant lot, naked,
mutilated, cut in half, the face beaten almost beyond recognition. Was
that why the head had been cut off the photograph? The "urgent
information" relayed by this man would answer the question once and
for all--"Who did this?" No throbbing bound up ego could do
without the recognition of an act so terrible, but how to weave the scene
to escape the mundaneness of consequences? This is the game we’d
play--constructing a scenario that allowed "confession" but
enabled an alternate point of view. With little or no actor’s training,
the limping man gave one of the best performances I’d seen, even better
than Charles Schmid’s gas chamber monologues that bordered on sheer
brilliance. But this disheveled man who seemed to be several in one, at
once devious and exact, over a two month period laid before me a tale that
was indeed too "urgent" to go unnoticed--especially by the
police. He blamed another person for the murder, but recalled details of
the crime that only the killer could know, or that the killer would have
told him. Before the police could muster the evidence into a substantial
case, this thin man burned to death in a hotel fire that gutted only his
room. The real truth becomes known only following his death, and like layers
being peeled away, that uncertain road I followed brought me to close
friends of Elizabeth Short. Once isolated facts, now shared, formed new
groupings, strange and overwhelming evidence mounted. The detectives, the
coroner, the arson squad, the DA’s office made the decision--there was a
muffling of information, a silencing. There was no way to indict a dead
man. No way to charge and try a charred corpse. The long nightmare
scenario had played itself out.
( M K Buzzell) Any theories other than Ellroy's concerning the "smile" carved into her
face? James Ellroy wrote a work of total fiction. He used Elizabeth Short’s
real name so he could ground his fiction in a prefab mystique. What
better way to belt up some good sales? He used her mother’s real name
and he used the name of a psycho confessee, a geek military corporal
named Joseph Dumais (perhaps because Ellroy himself bears much facial
resemblance to Dumais. Who knows? He borrowed the geek’s tall tale and
made a story out of it). Relying upon a few old newspaper clippings from
the heyday of tabloid sensationalism, Ellroy also borrowed from the old
sheets the notion of cutting the girl’s mouth into a “smile”! There’s no smile on Elizabeth Short’s face in the
morgue. ( Rick Pearson) After seeing the movie Who is the Black
Dahlia, I was wondering if the part about them getting an envelope
with some of Short's personal effects was true. If it were true, is there
a stamp on the envelope that might have DNA in it from saliva that could
be tested? Again, the mysterious packet. The fact is that this piece of evidence
no longer exists and was, in fact, very quick to disappear. I’m afraid a
present DNA for a saliva test on the stamp would show the spit was from
someone at the Los Angeles Examiner newspaper. Is there a Black Dahlia map of Los Angeles that traces her movements
and includes addresses? ( M K Buzzell) Stretches of time from 1963 until
1993, I worked on the “case," researching and investigating. I’ve
traveled through probably thirty states and talked to hundreds of people
from West, Texas, to San Francisco, to Boston and Chicago and Reno,
Nevada, to Florida and Indianapolis. The only activity there has ever
been as far as law enforcement is to interview nuts who come in to
confess or others who want to blame someone else for the crime from
their “mad uncle” to their father to their own mother. LAPD has, for
decades, sat back and done as little as they ever did; they listen to
loons and keep no notes. There was nothing to investigate until a
probable suspect was throw in their laps in 1981--Jack Anderson Wilson.
LAPD made the determination to nail Wilson. “He’s the boy,” St. John
said. “This is going to be it for me,” the detective said, “I’m going to
nail this sonovabitch and close this goddamn case so help me
god...” (Randy Osburn) Do you think that the LAPD will ever open the files and show the
evidence? There is no “evidence” to be shown that hasn’t appeared in the
newspapers, except for the “medical” evidence and the “paperwork” on
Wilson. ( Annette) Aside from her address book, I was wondering what other belongings were
sent to the L.A.P.D. by Elizabeth Short's murderer, and who is in
possession of these articles at this time? Have any of her other
belongings ever been sold or gone up for auction? The address book was not sent by the murderer, nor was it sent to the
police. More tall tales. Remember that the envelope itself, which has
been pictured widely, isn’t even addressed to the “police”. It is
addressed to the LA Examiner “and other Los Angeles papers” though who
gets first crack? Right. It is highly unlikely that any such items
exist, as anything once booked into evidence at LAPD has decades since
disappeared. Only in the movies are there dusty boxes of evidence and
stacks of records from old murders. (Anon) The last three chapters in the book make no reference to what year the
events described are taking place. Why so deliberately vague? The time jump in the book SEVERED is to carry the reader into another
decade, like sitting him on a cushion for a somewhat bumpy ride. The
transition is deliberate, but I wanted the reader to keep the previous
material as freshly available; to say we jump ahead many years causes
one to shift focus, to store away the material they’ve already read and
approach the balance as something separate, which I wanted to
avoid. (Anon) Have the film rights to SEVERED been sold? If so, to whom, and when
might we see it as a film? The film rights to SEVERED have been sold to Edward Pressman Film
Corp, (THE CROW; HOFFA; REVERSAL OF FORTUNE; BAD LIEUTENANT; THE ISLAND
OF DOCTOR MOREAU, etc, etc). David Lynch is a strong possibility for
director. If the film gets underway right now, it should be released in
the Spring of ' 98, when the new version of SEVERED will be published by
Amok Press, Los Angeles. The banner quote on the cover will be from
David Lynch, who says: “The most satisfying and disturbing conclusion to
the Black Dahlia case. After reading SEVERED I feel like I truly know
Elizabeth Short and her killer.” (Anon) Do you still maintain an office in the amazing Bradbury Building? No, I don’t still maintain an office in the Bradbury Building. Thank
you for asking. I’m a native of Los Angeles, born in “Unit One” (General
Hospital), Hollywood bred and while I still am home-based in L.A., I’ve
been dividing my time between there and New Mexico. That period of time
at the Bradbury Building was the most intense and active of my
research. (M K Buzzell) What kind of approaches did you make in order to gain interviews and
other information about the case? What type of investigative measures were
used to obtain documents? I have approached my nonfiction work as straddling a fence, operating
on both sides at the same time. To simplify, you can call it the “good”
and the “bad”; one side sanctioned by the law and morality, the other
lawless, subterranean and dangerous. I’ve listened to people without
making judgment; I have laced no value judgment on what I write
about--my only criteria is that I’m able to peel back the layers and see
the thing as it really is; to experience it, and to pass this experience
on to others in an attempt to achieve the state of having revealed
perhaps some heretofore previously unknown component of the human
condition. I have moved alongside my subjects, I have ridden with my
subjects, and I’ve been able to look into them as they have laid
themselves bare in part. Because we are social creatures, we necessarily
have ties to others, and from one such individual I might open two
others, and from those two perhaps four more--perhaps not, perhaps
finally leading to just one--or none, as has been the case at times.
Dead ends. (Pamela Hazelton) What type of reputation do you carry with today's LAPD in regard to your investigative coverage of Elizabeth Short, as well as works that have evolved since? I have been favored by some; some powerful figures within the LAPD;
I’ve made friends, been a pal, a drinking buddy, a joiner in their
situations. I have been this on the other side at the same time. People
talk to me. They want to tell me what’s inside of them. It’s a gift I
have, but it’s not without a price: two divorces, homes lost,
bankruptcy, almost homeless a couple of times. For what? A bundle of
notes, tapes, boxes of files and transcripts; a sea of oddballs swirling
around in my head; dim, dark faces, hard faces; cops with narrowed eyes
and that blank mask that sets on their features like concrete when you
hit a nerve with a bit of heavy information. As to obtaining documents? You cheat, beg, borrow and steal. What’s
the crime? Seeking public domain material. How public is it? How
available is it? It just doesn’t exist until you’re able to pry it out
from under some carefully guarded rock. Thus, in so doing, you catch them with their pants down.
You catch them as they really are. I’ve sought some people out almost as
they were breathing their last, choking on blood, in order to get
corroboration on something or other. And then what have I got? Words--a
jumble of ideas and tapes and transcripts in my head and then these have
to be laid out, and sometimes they simply will not lay out, they curl up
and twist away, they jerk away and refuse to conform to any pattern
you’re trying to lay down. When I had all this fairly well lumped together--after the meetings
with Jack Anderson Wilson--I knew I had to go to the police. I set the
subject in their lap and said here’s where it’s brought me. Thus began my
sojourn with John St. John. And that’s how it was with the character and personality of Beth
Short--the Black Dahlia. Other writers and reporters have stood hammering
at the front of this subject--BLACK DAHLIA- wanting in--wanting something.
Meanwhile I went around to the back door and snuck in. I’ve been through
every room and nook and cranny in this house. I’ve been in all the
drawers and under the liners in the drawers. I’ve been over every board
in the musty attic and I’ve been over every inch of the dirty dark
basement. I did my job. I brought the diverse pieces of this puzzle as closely
together as they’ll ever fit. It is a dark, dark picture. An especially
difficult picture, perhaps because of the victim herself. Other cases I’ve
written about--pitting against odds, tangible situations and people (which
create conflicts by the nature of these tangibles and each a solid entity
in some realistic way bound up with the individuals). But the Black Dahlia
moves from shadow into shadow. Star struck, she became the star of
darkness. ( Pamela Hazelton) Have you found any other works, articles, or other types of media that
have given true, just coverage to the Black Dahlia case, and it's
history? I have not found any other works, articles or other types of media
coverage on the Black Dahlia that have sustained any truth whatsoever.
One copies the other (have since the 1960’s--and before), and it’s like
the “letter to the police” or Ellroy’s supposed handling of “the case,”
or etc., etc. TV coverage drags out the same old
sources-without-connection-to-fact to air their empty views. These are
old, tired windbags afraid of SEVERED because it POPS
balloons. ( Pamela Hazelton) What kind of credibility can we give to Janice Knowlton’s book,
Daddy
Was the Black Dahlia Killer? I find there is no credibility whatsoever to what Janice Knowlton has
written about the Black Dahlia, nor what Michael Newton has
contributed. For a couple of years I was aware of her wandering
through the media, beating the bushes for notoriety. During this time
she contacted associates of mine, attempting to gain any sort of
“factual information” on the case so that she might thread her tale with
some strings of substance lest it all blow away in the wind. To one of
my associates, the following quote was made in letter from a top newsman
at KTTV FOX TV. Los Angeles: “She (Knowlton) is obviously a very
troubled person, and I wholehearted agree with you about the northern
California murder trial being a likely influence on her.” (He referred
to the young woman who accused her father of killing a young playmate,
and blocked the memory. The event was true and the father confessed--was
imprisoned for the long-ago murder). The reporter continues: “I have to
be very suspicious about Ms. Knowlton. I’ve discovered that she’s been
reading everything she can get her hands on about the case (Black
Dahlia), she’s complained loudly to police officials about not having
access to their information, and late last week she called, trying to
convince me that I should put her on television. On the one hand, I
can’t dismiss her as just another kook because her pain seems sincere; I
can’t help feeling however, that justice is not what she really wants,
or at least it’s not at the top of the list.” LAPD rapidly broke off communications with her, including her own
police department, in Westminster, California. I personally DID dismiss her as “another kook” until she went on
television (the Larry King Show and others), armed with some sort of
“psychological associate” and what she purported to be the actual
autopsy report on Elizabeth Short. (This “autopsy report” was never
revealed or disclosed on these few television “appearances”). Since I
had a copy of the original autopsy report in front of me, I wrote
Knowlton a brief letter in March, ‘92, and sent a stamped postcard with
several little blank spaces to be filled in by Knowlton, such as: “At the beginning of the report, the Medical Examiner discusses the
general condition of the body. What is the last word of his third
sentence?” Or: “On the actual autopsy report there is a mark on the
first page--a stamp with two lines of words. Beneath the stamp there
appears two letters, initials, inscribed by hand. The letters are very
clear--very legible. Which letter of the alphabet is the first
letter?” It would have taken anyone less than a minute or so to fill out the
postcard and drop it in the mail. I never heard from Knowlton or the
psychological associate. But a few months later I received a letter from
one Michael Newton, seeking “information” from me about Elizabeth Short
(not to do with a book, of course, so he says), and about the condition
of her body, and facts related to the actual autopsy. It was not until
almost a year later that I learned that he was the collaborator on
Knowlton’s book! For two years previous to this, my associate had been swamped with
weird poems from Knowlton and letters inviting my associate to “visit
Norton Avenue together as a memorial--privately. I’ve already anointed
the place I am drawn to with holy water.” And of course I knew the
various themes swimming in Knowlton’s head: Short had been beaten to
death with a hammer (there was no damage to Short’s skull or brain); she
had been cut in half with an electric Skill-saw, a hand circular saw! As
time progressed I observed these “repressed memories” altering to fit
whatever factual information she was always to pry away from somewhere.
But it wasn’t until she began becoming a “television star” that I
responded with my little quiz--which no doubt blew into the wind with
all the other Knowlton serial remembrances. There’s more to the Knowlton/Michael Newton story that needs not be
aired, but suffice to say as an investigative writer, I find no
credibility in Knowlton’s hairball tale, nor have I interest in Newton’s
anthology-like crime writing or his gilding of Knowlton’s fairy tales.
No matter how much gingerbread is dumped on Knowlton’s so-called
reveries, nothing, in my opinion, can float their bottomless
boat. ( Pamela Hazelton) A Web site visitor e-mailed me once: The more you learn about The Black
Dahlia, the less you know. Do you find this to be true, and if so, in what
respect? I went through many years of learning much and realizing I knew even
less. Had I not gone through that awful, dark-night-of the-soul
experience I would not have arrived at the thing in itself. Luckily, as
I reached that point (perhaps a dozen times), I’d gone too far in to
back out, and I knew I could never back out until I’d arrived at a point
where I felt that I had done my job to the best of my
ability. (Pamela Hazelton) Please explain how the investigation of police reports and murders
differ today opposed to 50 years ago. It is so vast, the difference between police investigative work today
and what it was 50 years ago... You’d need to write a book about it. We
take fingerprints off skin now--off substances that never could have
yielded prints. Back then, a case was littered and trashed as a result
of the jockeying for power of divisional detectives and DA’s. Cops and
press were caught up in a daisy chain feeding one another and the public
was lost. The worst thing was the territorial struggle between County
and City; it was a war zone. ( Pamela Hazelton) At the fifty-year mark, this year, was there anything you did in
respect to Elizabeth Shorts murder and your years of study pertaining to
this case? I extended the option on the movie and got drunk with the ghost of
Beth Short. ( Pamela Hazelton) How well was your book received as you first approached publishers
about the subject of The Black Dahlia? The publishers believed there was no market for a book on the Black
Dahlia because, they said, “the subject has been covered.” Remarkable
when you understand that my book was the only true crime book ever to be
written exclusively on the Black Dahlia case. New York was afraid of the
book (of course, now with the movie deal they’re not afraid at
all--they’re all grinning and showing their teeth). But I made a rule
for myself a long time ago: There’d be no compromise. I could not write
the book as it HAD to be written if I compromised at all. I did not
compromise and this “maverick” book is now heading into
'bestselldom.' ( Pamela Hazelton) Certain family members and friends have contacted myself about them
wanting The Black Dahlia Web site either removed, or to remain, but
without graphics in regard to the murder itself. A) Have you faced any
sort of threats or severe hostility regarding your investigation over the
years, from family members or others, and what is your take on that; and
B) Do you believe that we, as an interested society, take things too far
because we want to know so much? The issues of State and Church seem to lie beneath the rocks we tread
as we make our way through this life--both seem to inevitably be in
conflict with the areas of the very constitution the country is founded
upon. Franz Kafka once wrote about how the educational system parries
the “child’s impetuous assault on the truth,” and how we gradually,
step-by-step, by means of the educational system ,divert the child’s
assault on the truth and initiate this child into the lie—to accept a
reality manufactured by society, and to avoid any revelation of the
truth as it is--the thing in itself--the "ding en sich," as the poet,
Rilke, put it. Rather, we ramble on through life with beneath the banner
of ignorance is bliss. We are an enabling, lack-based society; Big Brother has the answer,
let Big Brother tell what part of the news we must hear- what part of
the news is the truth, and what part of it must be hidden and kept
secret from those interested parties--the child who wants the truthful
answer--the mass of adults who, if not too far gone beneath the
imposition of living the lie, still seek to know what is beyond the
veil--beyond what we see and smell and hear and touch. I suppose some rather things have been said about me for letting
tumble from the closets the skeletons so long kept under the
floorboards. The relatives of the Shorts (very few survive and I suspect
the ones making such a fuss have other agendas) have expressed somewhat
mixed reactions to my work: thankful that the truth about Beth is
loosed, that she was incapable of being a whore and a tramp and etc.,
while disturbed with the picture in its entirety. Most of the complaints
have come from other would-be writers or wannabes who fantasized
themselves writing a book on the case. How far is too far? What is so much that wants to be known? What are
the limits? Who imposes the limits? In my own lifetime I have seen man
climb the peaks of impossibility. A cure to polio--that dread that hung
over each year like a dark shroud- crippling and killing so many
children...? Going faster than the speed of sound? IMPOSSIBLE! A man on
the moon? YOU’RE CRAZY! That was going TOO FAR! Not so long ago Lenny Bruce was arrested--again and again- for saying
a word in public that offended the church/state combo. Andres Serrano
has been castigated by the federal government for his photograph of a
plastic crucifix placed in a jar of urine. Censorship is an act of power. The Fascist mentality censors to gain
power; discrimination is power; racism is power; control of the media is
power. Who has the power? Big Brother has the power. The government with
it’s handmaidens church and state shall dictate what is to be
photographed, what is to be painted, filmed, written about, what is to
be worn, how to behave, who is bad and who is good. Murder is part of life--our everyday lives are crowded with murder;
with assassination, with torture and brutality and famine and death. It
is the other side of the moon and the moon as the earth cannot exist
without two sides; without the day and the night. The only aggravation I faced in my years of investigation was from
those individuals who had managed to corner a fragment of some sort of
power and who were terrified to let it go. It is like a monkey trap--you
drill a hole in a gourd large enough for the monkey to slide his hand in
but too small for him to pull a fist back through. Inside the gourd is a
tasty tidbit which he grabs and will not release. So his clutch on this
tidbit quickly proves his downfall. It is the paradox. Hitler sought to
control the world but the greater his greed the more quickly he lost
all. Nothing can be hidden now. Our world is too small. And it is only by
pulling away the layers of mediocrity in search of the real truth about
ourselves, will we gain the strength and purpose of our existence.
Censorship, like mediocrity, breeds fascism. But what fascism (the
hunger for power and control over others) mounts becomes a collapsing
construction--a house of cards, and like the monkey, the censor is
sooner or later extinguished... All part of man’s progress through fear
and chaos. ( Pamela Hazelton) We all try to stay away from "What ifs?…" But in your opinion, what if
Elizabeth Short had not been murdered? Would she have ever made it in any
sort of film? What could have become of her life? If Beth had lived just few more years, she might well have been
“cured” of her handicap (not that she could ever have had children, but
she would not have had to be afraid of sexual intercourse with a man),
thus possibly finding the man she so yearned for. With her flair and at
times outgoing verve, she might have been able to get into movies. I
believe she might have been able to do this if she had not run away from
Hollywood after the Florentine Gardens situation. I think her next
step--had she gone TOWARDS something (rather than running from
something) would have been to get a speaking part in a movie at Columbia
pictures. ( Pamela Hazelton) Summing up in 20 words or less, what is the fascination with this particular murder case? The pale white body severed in two and left for the world to view, and her name: THE BLACK
DAHLIA The interview is exclusive and original.

JOHN GILMORE
The Black Dahlia Web Site
Visitors submitted questions to John Gilmore through
the month of August
1997. Mr. Gilmore answered
these questions September 9-12, 1997.
Elizabeth Short’s hair was not hennaed. She kept her hair
dyed black--as often as possible or whenever she’d find a sink; same as
stuffing wax into the bad teeth to keep the pain away and to give that
smile a radiance--"a waxy shine”.
by John Gilmore
In the midst of a new life for myself, John Hinckley makes the "big
time" by shooting President Ronald Reagan. Due to an encounter with
Hinckley several years before, the FBI and Secret Service paid me a
visit--wanting information on Hinckley hanging around some neo-Nazis in
LA. Days later, following a television news interview with me about
Hinckley, my second ex-wife called to say, "He’s back in your
life—the tall man with one bad leg."
Why so long and no activity from
authors or law enforcement until now?
I don’t know of such a map of Los Angeles
that traces Beth’s movements and addresses. A great many of the places I
confirmed have since (during the last few years) been torn down. A few
closed up places are still standing, and a number of the apartments and
places where she stayed (overnight or for...?) Such a map would be
interesting, though one must keep in mind that isn’t a real track--in
other words it was very back-and-forth without any real semblance of
order to the motions. However, from my notebooks, I have prepared a few
addresses of some of the places Elizabeth Short visited frequently. Also
a map of some location and friends or acquaintances…
Distribution of this interview is prohibited.